In the name of religion?

jengurl1987 Elite Member I Posts: 5,544	In the name of religion? Feb 19, 2015 14:05:26 GMT -5 Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by jengurl1987 on Feb 19, 2015 14:05:26 GMT -5 Pris, I'm not going to Grrrrrrrrrr! you on that one.

heatherly
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In the name of religion? Feb 19, 2015 14:05:50 GMT -5

Post by heatherly on Feb 19, 2015 14:05:50 GMT -5

So help me God is optional, right?

It's telling us that God knows we're lying, right!? So watch what you say! lol ;-) dun dun dun...

Otherwise, it's so you will be on record as saying you are telling the truth, so if they find out you didn't tell the truth later down the line, then you are in trouble, and it's with people who can punish you right here right now. No need for any religious references, really.

a_muppet
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In the name of religion? Feb 19, 2015 15:40:05 GMT -5

Post by a_muppet on Feb 19, 2015 15:40:05 GMT -5

Feb 19, 2015 9:47:46 GMT -5 priscillams said:

There are lies and then there are lies.

If I say I feel ill and can’t make it to the gym with my friend but really I just feel lazy. Then I have lied true enough.

However, if I swear on the life of my mother (son, daughter etc.) something is true, but in truth I am in fact lying, to me that lie is profoundly worse. For I am calling in a third party to my lie and doing so to add power to what I have said.

Therefore to me, when in a court in the USA a person takes the oath “I swear to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth SO HELP ME GOD”, doesn’t this religious reference add mystery and power to the oath?

I think even if I were an atheist, I would understand the very necessary reason for such a reference to a higher power.

Speaking as a devout athiest, I think it takes away from the oath. In the UK we can swear on the bible or not, it is our choice.

Caution, I am feral.

jengurl1987 Elite Member I Posts: 5,544	In the name of religion? Feb 19, 2015 16:04:41 GMT -5 Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by jengurl1987 on Feb 19, 2015 16:04:41 GMT -5 Well, there is something to be said about freedom of choice. Although I'm not an atheist, I became disgusted with main-stream religion.

priscillams Premier Member Posts: 3,551	In the name of religion? Feb 20, 2015 11:03:23 GMT -5 Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by priscillams on Feb 20, 2015 11:03:23 GMT -5 Me? I mean really, me? I get a grrrrrrrrrrrrrr? I'm shocked, shocked I tell you! Well maybe not. Seriously though....it takes away from the oath?

a_muppet
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In the name of religion? Feb 20, 2015 11:19:52 GMT -5

Post by a_muppet on Feb 20, 2015 11:19:52 GMT -5

I have a respect for religion, for the simple reason that I am reluctant to disrespect what other's old dear. It is all very well discussing it esoterically here online, but face to face and with people who I don't know from Adam

would be wrong for me, personally. But if my disbelief was more passionate, or even as selfish as many religious people who insist that theirs is THE faith, then I might be scornful of swearing on a bible.

How about you Priss? Would you feel the depth of righteousness swearing on a Kuran if you were called as a witness in Libya?

Caution, I am feral.

jengurl1987 Elite Member I Posts: 5,544	In the name of religion? Feb 20, 2015 11:49:21 GMT -5 Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by jengurl1987 on Feb 20, 2015 11:49:21 GMT -5 Good question, Cher. And Pris . . . I gave you an OPPOSITE Grrrrrr! I love how you started the whole Grrrrrrr thing though

priscillams
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In the name of religion? Feb 20, 2015 12:55:14 GMT -5

Post by priscillams on Feb 20, 2015 12:55:14 GMT -5

“Depth of righteousness”, I’m not sure I take your meaning.

Again, I have no expertise with regards to Islam. But as a Roman Catholic I believe in the ONE true God. And since Muslims also recognize only one true God, then perhaps we mean the same being. So if afoul of the law in Libya (God forbid) and if it is their custom, I wouldn’t have an issue swearing an oath and using a Koran.

Either text I think adds potency to the oath.

(Here in the US Islam's Sharia Law is a problem don't you think. I mean, separation of church and state.....)

jengurl1987
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In the name of religion? Feb 20, 2015 13:13:30 GMT -5

Post by jengurl1987 on Feb 20, 2015 13:13:30 GMT -5

Pris, because you are Catholic I wanted to tell you that when someone says something like "have a nice week-end" to me, I respond by saying "and also with you". I think that the phrase isn't used any more in the Catholic Church, but I took to it right away. So . . . if you Grrrrrrrr! me, I may just say "and also with you."

priscillams Premier Member Posts: 3,551	In the name of religion? Feb 20, 2015 14:20:23 GMT -5 Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by priscillams on Feb 20, 2015 14:20:23 GMT -5 Peace be with you Jen. Perhaps convert potential?

a_muppet
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In the name of religion? Feb 20, 2015 14:36:47 GMT -5

Post by a_muppet on Feb 20, 2015 14:36:47 GMT -5

My dad was a catholic, so I was brought up a catholic. It is one of the reasons I became an athiest and left Scotland, then refused to bring my daughter up as a catholic.

We may not get bombs in Scotland but the fighting between the catholics and the protestants there is only a little better than in Northern Ireland, and there have been plenty of murders over the years.

Scotland and Ireland are very fine countries as viewed through the eyes of a tourist, but smart people do not wear any religious indications, nor do we discuss religion with strangers.

At 17 I had to leave a party by the back door as I was outed as having been to a catholic school.

Athiests don't exist in Scotland or Ireland, whichever school you went to, stains you for life as either protestant or catholic.

Last Edit: Feb 20, 2015 14:38:47 GMT -5 by a_muppet

Caution, I am feral.

jengurl1987
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In the name of religion? Feb 20, 2015 14:52:13 GMT -5

Post by jengurl1987 on Feb 20, 2015 14:52:13 GMT -5

Well, there are really caring people from every religion. It's too bad that the religious idiots make the headlines.
Pris, I know that Peace be with you is followed by And also with you. I have a bunch of friends that are Catholic, but rather than convert, I'm going to remain a Godian. But . . . Peace be with you, and with your Spirit, my friend.

Last Edit: Feb 20, 2015 16:24:50 GMT -5 by jengurl1987

a_muppet
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In the name of religion? Feb 20, 2015 15:13:06 GMT -5

Post by a_muppet on Feb 20, 2015 15:13:06 GMT -5

Did you know it was against the law in the UK for a catholic to marry the king? This has only been repealed in 2012. Likewise, incidentally, they only just repealed the law against the first born having to be a male to be first in line.

LOL It took the twenty first century for us to recognise catholics and women.

God save the queen!

...and back to religion.

One of the fascinating things about christian religions is how often they quote the bible line about the rich struggling to get into heaven.

Now the wealthiest woman in the world is the queen, and the head of the church of england is also the queen.

Anyone know what the wealthiest institution in the world is, wealthier even than Gates?

That would be the Catholic church.

Last Edit: Feb 20, 2015 15:15:31 GMT -5 by a_muppet

Caution, I am feral.

jengurl1987 Elite Member I Posts: 5,544	In the name of religion? Feb 20, 2015 16:14:15 GMT -5 Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by jengurl1987 on Feb 20, 2015 16:14:15 GMT -5 It's taken us so long to recognise alot of issues, gay rights for example.

heatherly
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In the name of religion? Feb 20, 2015 17:47:03 GMT -5 a_muppet likes this

Post by heatherly on Feb 20, 2015 17:47:03 GMT -5

Feb 20, 2015 12:55:14 GMT -5 priscillams said:

(Here in the US Islam's Sharia Law is a problem don't you think. I mean, separation of church and state.....)

I am not sure I understand what you mean with this. It sounds like you are comparing separation of church and state with Sharia Law? Or did you mean we must keep with separation of church and state instead of heading down the path of something similar to Sharia Law? We will never have Sharia Law in the US, so why would it be a problem?

Let's look at the root here... Sharia Law is religious law, and separation of church and state is the removal of religion when creating laws. If anything, we have people attempting to instill a version of "Sharia Law" in the US, but it would be based on Christian or Catholic beliefs instead of Islamic.

So, I guess "Biblical Law" is a potential problem in the US ;-)

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In the name of religion? Feb 20, 2015 18:15:26 GMT -5 heatherly likes this

Post by a_muppet on Feb 20, 2015 18:15:26 GMT -5

Although, I agree that neither church or religion should have anything to do with any law making process anywhere, there is that marvellous line in the bible.

"Do unto others, as you would have them do unto you."

I do wonder though, why so few religious people actually follow it.

Caution, I am feral.

heatherly
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In the name of religion? Feb 20, 2015 18:23:38 GMT -5 a_muppet likes this

Post by heatherly on Feb 20, 2015 18:23:38 GMT -5

I'm fine with things such as "Thou shalt not kill" from the Ten Commandments ;-)

But we didn't need to use a Bible as reference to come up with that as a law, did we? It's just part of maintaining and caring for a civilization. Religion is not required for morals, I would know! Defining morals and having laws based on them is okay with me.

Last Edit: Feb 20, 2015 18:24:37 GMT -5 by heatherly

jengurl1987 Elite Member I Posts: 5,544	In the name of religion? Feb 20, 2015 18:32:43 GMT -5 Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by jengurl1987 on Feb 20, 2015 18:32:43 GMT -5 Maybe we should totally take religion out of the equation and let me people live their own lives. If they choose to be law-abiding that would be cool, but when they break the law, God or Allah can't defend them.

heatherly Administrator Maintain low tones! Posts: 16,395	In the name of religion? Feb 20, 2015 20:14:03 GMT -5 Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by heatherly on Feb 20, 2015 20:14:03 GMT -5 God already can't defend them in the court of law ;-) If someone says God told them to do something heinous, then they will most likely require psychological evaluation.

priscillams
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In the name of religion? Feb 22, 2015 13:59:19 GMT -5

Post by priscillams on Feb 22, 2015 13:59:19 GMT -5

I just think these Islamic extremists, ISIS etc., want more than just religious freedom and peaceful co-existence. Jesus spoke of "rendering unto Ceasar....". It seems to me the Islam these extremists practice is more a domination / war ideology.

a_muppet Global Moderator Posts: 35,036	In the name of religion? Feb 22, 2015 14:36:19 GMT -5 heatherly likes this Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by a_muppet on Feb 22, 2015 14:36:19 GMT -5 There is no indication that ISIS are ever going to act in a reasonable manner. Other than that....... All extremists should be clubbed to death with small sticks.
	Caution, I am feral.

heatherly Administrator Maintain low tones! Posts: 16,395	In the name of religion? Feb 22, 2015 15:17:13 GMT -5 Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by heatherly on Feb 22, 2015 15:17:13 GMT -5 I don't think people like ISIS want peace... they just want control, and they use extreme tactics to achieve this. Join or be killed is their method.. it's very sad =/

jengurl1987 Elite Member I Posts: 5,544	In the name of religion? Feb 22, 2015 17:46:02 GMT -5 Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by jengurl1987 on Feb 22, 2015 17:46:02 GMT -5 The extremists desperately want the world to end because they believe that their God would accept them if they created the apocalypse. I have just one thing to say to them, and it begins with the letter F.

a_muppet Global Moderator Posts: 35,036	In the name of religion? Feb 22, 2015 18:00:04 GMT -5 heatherly likes this Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by a_muppet on Feb 22, 2015 18:00:04 GMT -5 Fairy cakes?
	Caution, I am feral.

jengurl1987 Elite Member I Posts: 5,544	In the name of religion? Feb 22, 2015 18:10:03 GMT -5 Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by jengurl1987 on Feb 22, 2015 18:10:03 GMT -5 Well, no . . . ! I'll turn this over to my good friend, John Cleese now.

priscillams
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In the name of religion? Feb 23, 2015 10:19:49 GMT -5

Post by priscillams on Feb 23, 2015 10:19:49 GMT -5

Apparently a Somalian Islamist terror group linked to al-Qaeda has made a specific threat to the “Mall of America”. The mall has now added additional security. Interesting.

The head of the Department of Homeland Security cautions citizens of the Twin Cities to “be careful,” and “if you see something, say something”. Uh huh.

Hmmmm……if a citizen actually did “say something” do you think they’d be covered against accusations of intolerance and bigotry?

Considering this specific threat coming from a Somali group do you think the added mall security should be allowed or encouraged to “profile”?

jengurl1987 Elite Member I Posts: 5,544	In the name of religion? Feb 23, 2015 10:38:27 GMT -5 Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by jengurl1987 on Feb 23, 2015 10:38:27 GMT -5 I heard about this a day or so ago, and I think that I may be (don't be shocked) on your side regarding this issue, Pris.

a_muppet
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In the name of religion? Feb 23, 2015 11:29:24 GMT -5

Post by a_muppet on Feb 23, 2015 11:29:24 GMT -5

Feb 23, 2015 10:19:49 GMT -5 priscillams said:

Apparently a Somalian Islamist terror group linked to al-Qaeda has made a specific threat to the “Mall of America”. The mall has now added additional security. Interesting.

The head of the Department of Homeland Security cautions citizens of the Twin Cities to “be careful,” and “if you see something, say something”. Uh huh.

Hmmmm……if a citizen actually did “say something” do you think they’d be covered against accusations of intolerance and bigotry?

Considering this specific threat coming from a Somali group do you think the added mall security should be allowed or encouraged to “profile”?

You are not alone, canada, and uk too. ;(

www.theguardian.com/world/2015/feb/22/terror-threats-issued-against-british-american-and-canadian-shopping-malls

Caution, I am feral.

priscillams Premier Member Posts: 3,551	In the name of religion? Feb 23, 2015 12:55:18 GMT -5 Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by priscillams on Feb 23, 2015 12:55:18 GMT -5 Tragic.... Jen, one step at a time.....

heatherly
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In the name of religion? Feb 23, 2015 14:05:01 GMT -5

Post by heatherly on Feb 23, 2015 14:05:01 GMT -5

Yeah, I read about this the other day, too. I guess they are targeting some of the biggest malls around the world? Ones they have easiest access to or something? It might be in locations with a larger Somali population, I'm not too sure, but I think I also read that about the area in MN at least. I'm sure it's not all of them, but a few bad apples who are part of the terrorist cult =/

I don't think profiling would work as well. I think watching people with nervous twitches or wearing outfits that can easily conceal large weapons would be what you really watch for. If you just say something because the person has a beard or dark skin, then that would be silly and a waste of time.

Really, why not just check for weapons before allowing anyone to enter? If the place is being threatened, then why not? It's a precautionary measure to me.

Post by jengurl1987 on Feb 19, 2015 14:05:26 GMT -5

Post by heatherly on Feb 19, 2015 14:05:50 GMT -5

Post by a_muppet on Feb 19, 2015 15:40:05 GMT -5

Post by jengurl1987 on Feb 19, 2015 16:04:41 GMT -5

Post by priscillams on Feb 20, 2015 11:03:23 GMT -5

Post by a_muppet on Feb 20, 2015 11:19:52 GMT -5

Post by jengurl1987 on Feb 20, 2015 11:49:21 GMT -5

Post by priscillams on Feb 20, 2015 12:55:14 GMT -5

Post by jengurl1987 on Feb 20, 2015 13:13:30 GMT -5

Post by priscillams on Feb 20, 2015 14:20:23 GMT -5

Post by a_muppet on Feb 20, 2015 14:36:47 GMT -5

Post by jengurl1987 on Feb 20, 2015 14:52:13 GMT -5

Post by a_muppet on Feb 20, 2015 15:13:06 GMT -5

Post by jengurl1987 on Feb 20, 2015 16:14:15 GMT -5

Post by heatherly on Feb 20, 2015 17:47:03 GMT -5

Post by a_muppet on Feb 20, 2015 18:15:26 GMT -5

Post by heatherly on Feb 20, 2015 18:23:38 GMT -5

Post by jengurl1987 on Feb 20, 2015 18:32:43 GMT -5

Post by heatherly on Feb 20, 2015 20:14:03 GMT -5

Post by priscillams on Feb 22, 2015 13:59:19 GMT -5

Post by a_muppet on Feb 22, 2015 14:36:19 GMT -5

Post by heatherly on Feb 22, 2015 15:17:13 GMT -5

Post by jengurl1987 on Feb 22, 2015 17:46:02 GMT -5

Post by a_muppet on Feb 22, 2015 18:00:04 GMT -5

Post by jengurl1987 on Feb 22, 2015 18:10:03 GMT -5

Post by priscillams on Feb 23, 2015 10:19:49 GMT -5

Post by jengurl1987 on Feb 23, 2015 10:38:27 GMT -5

Post by a_muppet on Feb 23, 2015 11:29:24 GMT -5

Post by priscillams on Feb 23, 2015 12:55:18 GMT -5

Post by heatherly on Feb 23, 2015 14:05:01 GMT -5

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