The "WTF" Thread

priscillams
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The "WTF" Thread Oct 27, 2021 16:09:54 GMT -5 heatherly likes this

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Post by priscillams on Oct 27, 2021 16:09:54 GMT -5

I admit I don't know all the facts. But I do know for this to happen wasn't an accident, it was negligence. The shooter pulled the trigger carelessly as to load and target. We need to know more facts as to other negligence.

(I can pick my gun off a table and check it for load in about 3-seconds. So simple, that's the tragedy.)

a_muppet
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The "WTF" Thread Oct 27, 2021 17:13:50 GMT -5 heatherly likes this

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Post by a_muppet on Oct 27, 2021 17:13:50 GMT -5

Oct 27, 2021 14:20:42 GMT -5 heatherly said:

Oct 27, 2021 13:49:06 GMT -5 priscillams said:

After what Baldwin has tweeted, mocking him is OK by me.

I had to look it up, are you talking about a 2017 tweet or something else?

But people mocking him are turning the death of this woman into something it's not. It's not a gun rights hypocrisy issue or not knowing gun safety. It's a movie set and a character that doesn't exist, so it doesn't really matter what his personal beliefs are. From what I read, the rules on a set are different about the guns, and they must have armorers who deal with that. The actors are not supposed to have to check the guns, so if someone tells them it's clear, then they are supposed to be able to trust that. Unfortunately, someone did not do their job or was misinformed when relaying a message of it being okay to use.

Honestly, though... they need to not even use blanks. We have CGI!? Brandon Lee died to a blank... it really shouldn't be happening these days.

Of course it couldn't have happened in the uk.

Still you won't get rid of them.

Caution, I am feral.

heatherly
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The "WTF" Thread Oct 27, 2021 18:26:37 GMT -5 a_muppet likes this

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Post by heatherly on Oct 27, 2021 18:26:37 GMT -5

Oct 27, 2021 16:09:54 GMT -5 priscillams said:

I admit I don't know all the facts. But I do know for this to happen wasn't an accident, it was negligence. The shooter pulled the trigger carelessly as to load and target. We need to know more facts as to other negligence.

(I can pick my gun off a table and check it for load in about 3-seconds. So simple, that's the tragedy.)

Agreed.. someone was negligent somewhere along the line. I think they are mostly focusing on the armorer and associate director.. but my guess is the armorer might be the biggest issue.

It could be a good idea to make it so actors are taught to also check, but that's just not how they do it on the sets from what I read about the laws regarding it. It seems they're supposed to have very limited access to the guns, and they are not allowed to use them without steps taken by the armorer first. The armorer is to be a licensed expert regarding weaponry... It's just a shame what happened because as you mentioned, it could have been prevented if someone didn't miss the steps they were supposed to have taken.

Popcorn&Candy
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The "WTF" Thread Oct 28, 2021 1:10:57 GMT -5 heatherly likes this

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Post by Popcorn&Candy on Oct 28, 2021 1:10:57 GMT -5

I read a book that has a very similar theme to this real-life incident. It is called "Last Act" by Christopher Pike and is spookily similar.

Basically, the main character - a theatre actress called Melanie - uses a gun to shoot the other character in the play. Unknown to Melanie, the killer used another gun at the same time to make it seem as if melanie had committed the murder. There was talk about wad cutters. Of course - in the end - the real killer is found and Melanie is exonerated. But Melanie handled the gun: she should've have been handed a safety gun. The investigator has a lot of questions and in the end they are all answered.

And I hope all the questions are answered in this real-life incident.

Reigning Supreme Queen Of Laundry

kjay Moderator Posts: 24,261	The "WTF" Thread Oct 28, 2021 5:02:01 GMT -5 heatherly likes this Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by kjay on Oct 28, 2021 5:02:01 GMT -5 What's even makes it worse is that there are fake guns that can't shoot a live round because no ammunition can be loaded into them, only blanks of a different size than real ammunition.
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a_muppet
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The "WTF" Thread Oct 28, 2021 5:22:29 GMT -5

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Post by a_muppet on Oct 28, 2021 5:22:29 GMT -5

Oct 27, 2021 16:09:54 GMT -5 priscillams said:

I admit I don't know all the facts. But I do know for this to happen wasn't an accident, it was negligence. The shooter pulled the trigger carelessly as to load and target. We need to know more facts as to other negligence.

(I can pick my gun off a table and check it for load in about 3-seconds. So simple, that's the tragedy.)

You probably won't get it, but that is one of the scariest things I have ever read about guns.

Caution, I am feral.

a_muppet
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The "WTF" Thread Oct 28, 2021 5:22:43 GMT -5 heatherly likes this

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Post by a_muppet on Oct 28, 2021 5:22:43 GMT -5

Oct 28, 2021 5:02:01 GMT -5 kjay said:

What's even makes it worse is that there are fake guns that can't shoot a live round because no ammunition can be loaded into them, only blanks of a different size than real ammunition.

Blanks kill too.

Caution, I am feral.

kjay
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The "WTF" Thread Oct 28, 2021 5:30:04 GMT -5

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Post by kjay on Oct 28, 2021 5:30:04 GMT -5

Oct 28, 2021 5:22:43 GMT -5 a_muppet said:

Oct 28, 2021 5:02:01 GMT -5 kjay said:

What's even makes it worse is that there are fake guns that can't shoot a live round because no ammunition can be loaded into them, only blanks of a different size than real ammunition.

Blanks kill too.

I never heard of that until now so i had to look it up and sure enough you are right. Maybe they should use dummy guns and use computer generated effects to make them look real.

Chase your dreams. In high heels of course.

priscillams
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The "WTF" Thread Oct 28, 2021 8:05:11 GMT -5 heatherly likes this

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Post by priscillams on Oct 28, 2021 8:05:11 GMT -5

Being able to check a gun quickly is scary...how so?

"My definition of a man's man is a man who knows gun safety, we all did." Kurt Vonnegut

(I carry a revolver. Because my model is small it carries only 5-rounds. Revolvers are simple and safest I think because of cleaning and rounds are more obvious. Many gun owners would disagree with me, but I only load 4-rounds. The first cylinder I leave empty just to be sure.)

priscillams
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The "WTF" Thread Oct 28, 2021 8:15:14 GMT -5

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Post by priscillams on Oct 28, 2021 8:15:14 GMT -5

Seems now the gun used by Baldwin was either a true old gun or a historical replica. No matter really, but the gun he used was a "single action" revolver.

That means a shooter must first use his thumb to "cock" the hammer, and then use a finger to pull the trigger releasing the hammer and round. (Aside from target guns, most modern day revolvers are "double action", one trigger pull retracts the hammer and fires the round.)

Baldwin had to cock his gun, he knew he was going to shoot, then he pulled the trigger without regard to how it was pointed. I can't see how he wasn't negligent, especially being co-producer. I assume he had some minimal control over the movie site.

heatherly
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The "WTF" Thread Oct 28, 2021 9:04:01 GMT -5 a_muppet likes this

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Post by heatherly on Oct 28, 2021 9:04:01 GMT -5

Oct 28, 2021 8:05:11 GMT -5 priscillams said:

Being able to check a gun quickly is scary...how so?

Maybe how we can just have guns lying around our house to grab in a moment's notice.. that is scary to think about when you don't live in a country accustomed to so much gun usage lol we have a shotgun next to where we sleep.. it even scares me!

heatherly
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The "WTF" Thread Oct 28, 2021 9:05:26 GMT -5

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Post by heatherly on Oct 28, 2021 9:05:26 GMT -5

Oct 28, 2021 8:15:14 GMT -5 priscillams said:

Baldwin had to cock his gun, he knew he was going to shoot, then he pulled the trigger without regard to how it was pointed. I can't see how he wasn't negligent, especially being co-producer. I assume he had some minimal control over the movie site.

I think they said the scene was supposed to be him aiming and firing toward the camera. That's what they were going for, which is how the cinematographer got hit.

a_muppet
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The "WTF" Thread Oct 28, 2021 17:19:10 GMT -5

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Post by a_muppet on Oct 28, 2021 17:19:10 GMT -5

Oct 28, 2021 8:05:11 GMT -5 priscillams said:

Being able to check a gun quickly is scary...how so?

"My definition of a man's man is a man who knows gun safety, we all did." Kurt Vonnegut

(I carry a revolver. Because my model is small it carries only 5-rounds. Revolvers are simple and safest I think because of cleaning and rounds are more obvious. Many gun owners would disagree with me, but I only load 4-rounds. The first cylinder I leave empty just to be sure.)

The quote was: "I can pick my gun off a table and check it for load in about 3-seconds"

It is the casual expression of the whole picture you have painted in those few words.

To say nothing of the fact that you are an ordinary middle class woman, who I presume lives in an ordinary middle class area, and you need a gun, it needs to be loaded, and it needs to be checked regularly.

That the entire event takes place on a table. A table is what one imagines as a place where food is shared, and regular family occurs.

That checking it is done so regularly that you have become effortlessly proficient at it.

That you think it is an insignificant event.

and finally, that you are probably now rolling your eyes as you read what I have said, and probably still don't get it.

Caution, I am feral.

heatherly Administrator Maintain low tones! Posts: 16,395	The "WTF" Thread Oct 28, 2021 17:55:31 GMT -5 Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by heatherly on Oct 28, 2021 17:55:31 GMT -5 'Murrica!

cassie
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The "WTF" Thread Oct 29, 2021 4:35:22 GMT -5 heatherly and a_muppet like this

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Post by cassie on Oct 29, 2021 4:35:22 GMT -5

Oct 28, 2021 17:19:10 GMT -5 a_muppet said:

Oct 28, 2021 8:05:11 GMT -5 priscillams said:

Being able to check a gun quickly is scary...how so?

"My definition of a man's man is a man who knows gun safety, we all did." Kurt Vonnegut

(I carry a revolver. Because my model is small it carries only 5-rounds. Revolvers are simple and safest I think because of cleaning and rounds are more obvious. Many gun owners would disagree with me, but I only load 4-rounds. The first cylinder I leave empty just to be sure.)

The quote was: "I can pick my gun off a table and check it for load in about 3-seconds"

It is the casual expression of the whole picture you have painted in those few words.

To say nothing of the fact that you are an ordinary middle class woman, who I presume lives in an ordinary middle class area, and you need a gun, it needs to be loaded, and it needs to be checked regularly.

That the entire event takes place on a table. A table is what one imagines as a place where food is shared, and regular family occurs.

That checking it is done so regularly that you have become effortlessly proficient at it.

That you think it is an insignificant event.

and finally, that you are probably now rolling your eyes as you read what I have said, and probably still don't get it.

Exactly, the normalisation almost trivial nature of describing checking out a deadly weapon in the heart of the home is a blood chilling onethat I hope never becomes the norm in my country.

Just the act of owning a killing machine means you have accepted that one day you may take another human life. That in itself is abhorrent to most people.

jen
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The "WTF" Thread Oct 29, 2021 7:20:34 GMT -5 heatherly likes this

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Post by jen on Oct 29, 2021 7:20:34 GMT -5

Oct 29, 2021 4:35:22 GMT -5 cassie said:

Oct 28, 2021 17:19:10 GMT -5 a_muppet said:

The quote was: "I can pick my gun off a table and check it for load in about 3-seconds"

It is the casual expression of the whole picture you have painted in those few words.

To say nothing of the fact that you are an ordinary middle class woman, who I presume lives in an ordinary middle class area, and you need a gun, it needs to be loaded, and it needs to be checked regularly.

That the entire event takes place on a table. A table is what one imagines as a place where food is shared, and regular family occurs.

That checking it is done so regularly that you have become effortlessly proficient at it.

That you think it is an insignificant event.

and finally, that you are probably now rolling your eyes as you read what I have said, and probably still don't get it.

Exactly, the normalisation almost trivial nature of describing checking out a deadly weapon in the heart of the home is a blood chilling onethat I hope never becomes the norm in my country.

Just the act of owning a killing machine means you have accepted that one day you may take another human life. That in itself is abhorrent to most people.

I will echo that although I remember that when I was young guns were more prevelant here, at least in the countryside. They are generally less common now due to better control. It hasn't stopped the criminals though.

cassie
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The "WTF" Thread Oct 29, 2021 7:56:46 GMT -5 via mobile heatherly and a_muppet like this

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Post by cassie on Oct 29, 2021 7:56:46 GMT -5

At this time of year we hear gunshots most mornings. But its from farmers with shotguns aiming at the geese that plauge the countryside. All carefully controlled and licenced. So its not as if Im totally unaware of guns.

But the idea of a gun on the dining table that serves no purpose except to be a threat or death sentence to another human is just not acceptable to me.

priscillams
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The "WTF" Thread Oct 29, 2021 8:22:18 GMT -5

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Post by priscillams on Oct 29, 2021 8:22:18 GMT -5

Only the untrained treat a gun in a trivial manner. And "tables" are ubiquitous, they even exist at gun ranges.

Seconds may count when protecting one's self. Rehearsing a movie scene is surely less critical and perhaps explains why unintentional shootings are so rare in Hollywood.

I think of it this way...if Baldwin was told the gun was safe, and the scene was him committing suicide, would he have pulled that trigger without checking the gun personally? Maybe he is that untrained and stupid. Me, I'd check.

He was negligent and everybody knows it.

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The "WTF" Thread Oct 29, 2021 9:26:29 GMT -5

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Post by heatherly on Oct 29, 2021 9:26:29 GMT -5

Oct 29, 2021 8:22:18 GMT -5 priscillams said:

I think of it this way...if Baldwin was told the gun was safe, and the scene was him committing suicide, would he have pulled that trigger without checking the gun personally? Maybe he is that untrained and stupid. Me, I'd check.

I don't think they'd even have blanks in it for a scene like that because a blank that close could kill you!

heatherly Administrator Maintain low tones! Posts: 16,395	The "WTF" Thread Oct 29, 2021 9:27:39 GMT -5 Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by heatherly on Oct 29, 2021 9:27:39 GMT -5 Oct 29, 2021 8:22:18 GMT -5 priscillams said: He was negligent and everybody knows it. Read about movie sets and guns to better understand the situation. It's a whole different world than what you'd be used to or do.

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The "WTF" Thread Oct 29, 2021 11:25:08 GMT -5

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Post by a_muppet on Oct 29, 2021 11:25:08 GMT -5

Oct 29, 2021 8:22:18 GMT -5 priscillams said:

Only the untrained treat a gun in a trivial manner. And "tables" are ubiquitous, they even exist at gun ranges.

Seconds may count when protecting one's self. Rehearsing a movie scene is surely less critical and perhaps explains why unintentional shootings are so rare in Hollywood.

I think of it this way...if Baldwin was told the gun was safe, and the scene was him committing suicide, would he have pulled that trigger without checking the gun personally? Maybe he is that untrained and stupid. Me, I'd check.

He was negligent and everybody knows it.

Oh, I fully understood what you said and why you do it.

What you asked was why I was so appalled by your comment: "I can pick my gun off a table and check it for load in about 3-seconds"

I did say that you probably wouldn't get it.

Last Edit: Oct 29, 2021 11:27:43 GMT -5 by a_muppet

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cassie Elite Member III Posts: 7,590	The "WTF" Thread Oct 29, 2021 11:48:05 GMT -5 via mobile a_muppet likes this Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by cassie on Oct 29, 2021 11:48:05 GMT -5 Pro gun people never ' get it'

heatherly
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The "WTF" Thread Oct 29, 2021 12:07:00 GMT -5 a_muppet and kjay like this

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Post by heatherly on Oct 29, 2021 12:07:00 GMT -5

I do think it's harder to place yourself into the shoes or eyes of someone else when it comes to things you are so used to.

I know it's normalized in the US, but I'm not big on guns either, so I'll never fully be used to it, so I definitely understand how odd it must appear from the outside looking in! lol

heatherly Administrator Maintain low tones! Posts: 16,395	The "WTF" Thread Oct 29, 2021 12:29:46 GMT -5 a_muppet and kjay like this Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by heatherly on Oct 29, 2021 12:29:46 GMT -5 www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/10/27/ellen-greenberg-suicide-stabbing/ Here's a new WTF to talk about.... suicide, eh?

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The "WTF" Thread Oct 29, 2021 17:10:03 GMT -5 kjay likes this

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Post by a_muppet on Oct 29, 2021 17:10:03 GMT -5

Oct 29, 2021 12:29:46 GMT -5 heatherly said:

www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/10/27/ellen-greenberg-suicide-stabbing/

Here's a new WTF to talk about.... suicide, eh?

I have cut my finger in the past with a knife. It really stings.

I can't imagine how determined you would have to be to stab yourself with a big knife twenty times, and do enough damage to kill yourself.

Caution, I am feral.

kjay
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The "WTF" Thread Oct 30, 2021 4:59:23 GMT -5

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Post by kjay on Oct 30, 2021 4:59:23 GMT -5

Oct 29, 2021 17:10:03 GMT -5 a_muppet said:

Oct 29, 2021 12:29:46 GMT -5 heatherly said:

www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/10/27/ellen-greenberg-suicide-stabbing/

Here's a new WTF to talk about.... suicide, eh?

I have cut my finger in the past with a knife. It really stings.

I can't imagine how determined you would have to be to stab yourself with a big knife twenty times, and do enough damage to kill yourself.

Exactly Cherry. The pain has to be overwhelming.

Chase your dreams. In high heels of course.

priscillams Premier Member Posts: 3,551	The "WTF" Thread Oct 30, 2021 6:40:39 GMT -5 Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by priscillams on Oct 30, 2021 6:40:39 GMT -5 Was that comment "you are probably now rolling your eyes" really necessary? But being termed "ordinary" now that hurt. Myself, I thought quite hard about my first gun purchase.

a_muppet
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The "WTF" Thread Oct 30, 2021 7:03:49 GMT -5

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Post by a_muppet on Oct 30, 2021 7:03:49 GMT -5

Oct 30, 2021 6:40:39 GMT -5 priscillams said:

Was that comment "you are probably now rolling your eyes" really necessary? But being termed "ordinary" now that hurt.

Myself, I thought quite hard about my first gun purchase.

Can I take it from that comment that you think my opinion is a valid one?

LOL @ "ordinary".

Having a gun is just like having a cobra for a pet. You can be very careful, very skilled, very practiced, very knowledge, in fact very very very, but one error can lead to the most awful consequence.

Caution, I am feral.

cassie
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The "WTF" Thread Oct 30, 2021 7:13:40 GMT -5 via mobile

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Post by cassie on Oct 30, 2021 7:13:40 GMT -5

Oct 30, 2021 7:03:49 GMT -5 a_muppet said:

Oct 30, 2021 6:40:39 GMT -5 priscillams said:

Was that comment "you are probably now rolling your eyes" really necessary? But being termed "ordinary" now that hurt.

Myself, I thought quite hard about my first gun purchase.

Can I take it from that comment that you think my opinion is a valid one?

LOL @ "ordinary".

Having a gun is just like having a cobra for a pet. You can be very careful, very skilled, very practiced, very knowledge, in fact very very very, but one error can lead to the most awful consequence.

The difference is if you keep a cobra it probably won't kill anyone but you when you own a gun your intention is to kill someone else with it.

priscillams Premier Member Posts: 3,551	The "WTF" Thread Oct 30, 2021 8:14:27 GMT -5 Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by priscillams on Oct 30, 2021 8:14:27 GMT -5 Please, a gun is an inanimate object, the snake isn't and has instincts. I decided to keep a gun, I'd never keep a cobra.

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