"World is beginningless. Each and everything in the world has a cause before it. Like egg and hen paradox. Therefore everything is dependently originated. Everything is subject to causality."
Show me the proof and I will acknowledge your opinion.
Both opinions cannot be proven empirically.
Once I read how buddhists justify this. As I understood, they infer this by considering material and mental phenomena in this life.
They take this life as a generation of material (body) moments and mind moments. Each material moment (billions of) in this life needs previous causes like food, heat etc in order to be arisen. It can be proven empirically. Each mental moment (billions of) in this life needs different previous causes like intention, desire etc. including a previous mental moment in order to be arisen. That means each mind of this life necessiates a previous mind. It can also be proven empirically.
Afterwards they take the highest probability about the first mind (at birth). Higher probability is towards the need of a previous mind for the first mind in this life. Then they infer that there was most probably a previous life.
There were many other methods like this to infer repeated-birth and karma in that book.
I am not religious, though: I prefer a more scientific viewpoint.
Faith is analyzed in Buddhism into two types called Blind-faith and Reasoned-faith. What the Buddha appreciated was the Reasoned-faith.
Reasoned-faith means believing based on proper facts and reasons.
The Buddha advised to reject both Traditionalist teachers and Mere-logical thinkers. The reason for the rejection is mentioned as thus:
"Traditionalist sometimes says truth but sometimes says false. Mere logical thinker also sometimes says truth but sometimes says false."
At another time the Buddha had said, the person who can't realize the reality of suffering (birth, aging, diseases and death) of the life, should seek for a teacher who has realized the truth using Super-natural wisdom. (Otherwise the person is considered a younger who trust his own ordinary mind.)
In another place the Buddha advices the truth seekers to test the Buddha before believing in. The Buddha advices the truth seekers to try hard to find out any bodily or verbal or mental fault in the Buddha to ensure that the Buddha doesn't have any weaknesses whatsoever.
For the people who are not confident in repeated-birth, the Buddha advices to take the "Assured path" by readying for bothpossibilities.
Assured path is mentioned as thus:
"If there was a repeated birth, and I had not done evil, then I would be born in a good place.
If there was NOT a repeated birth, and I had not done evil, then also I would not face any problems.
In both cases I would be safe, if I have not done any evil."
So the refraining from evil acts in this life is considered the Assured path.
The earth is well over 4 billion years old: since the Big Bang occurred and solar system was formed.
The human race has only been on the planet a fraction of that time.
Those things are also extensively explained in the Buddhist texts.
According to Buddhism, the Universe consists of infinite number of Galaxies. The galaxy we live in is called the Auspicious galaxy. Around it, there are 10000 galaxies. Around it, there are 1000000000000 galaxies, ... likewise until infinity.
The universe is evolving through four phases called Shrinking eon, Shrinked-static eon, Expanding eon, Expanded-static eon. (an eon is an uncountable number of years).
Unlike Big bang theory in Science, the expansion of the universe doesn't start out of nowhere or without previous causes, according to Buddhism.
The above four phases are repeating endlessly towards the past as we as the future. It is considered a generation of causes and effects.
Regarding living beings:
Each and every birth necessitates a death before it (as a cause). Each and every death necessitates a birth before it.
Therefore the beginning of the world cannot be found. (like each egg necessitates a hen before it, and, each hen necessitates an egg before it).
World is beginningless. Each an every event has a previous event as its cause.
In the same way, the end of the world also cannot be found. World is endless. Each an every event has a next event as its effect.
The very first event wouldn't have an event before it.... but it certainly can have events that occur after it or because of it.
We already have an idea about the beginning, but will we ever know with 100% certainty? No, but there is a beginning nonetheless.
As for the chicken vs the egg question... What may have started as a speck of an organism grew and adapted over time... which eventually would become something that could lay eggs... which would then one day lay an egg similar to what we see today. So, it really depends on how one views it... as if whatever laid the egg was not quite a chicken yet, but close.. then it still may technically be considered the 'chicken' coming first... and the egg is just a more refined version of what would be or become the chicken. However, if what laid the egg was not a hen yet or even remotely close to looking like a chicken, but it laid an egg that had the first chicken in it, then it could be considered the egg first.
But eh... I may lean more toward the chicken first type... genetically, there was something similar enough, so I would consider it a version of the chicken even if we may have called it something else, but that may have been what chickens looked like back then.. who are we to really say what is what based on physical appearances... as long as the DNA is similar then it's a fit It's not like the egg appeared out of thin air.
Last Edit: Mar 27, 2024 10:59:33 GMT -5 by heatherly
Taking Darwin's evolution one stage further then maybe the steady evolution of non living matter went on to a mutation that was able to regenerate itself in terms which we may consider living.
As for the chicken and egg, don't forget about organisms like the amoeba which date before animal life and which higher organisms evolved from. They just reproduce by division of cells so the chicken is the egg
The very first event wouldn't have an event before it.... but it certainly can have events that occur after it or because of it.
We already have an idea about the beginning, but will we ever know with 100% certainty? No, but there is a beginning nonetheless.
As for the chicken vs the egg question... What may have started as a speck of an organism grew and adapted over time... which eventually would become something that could lay eggs... which would then one day lay an egg similar to what we see today. So, it really depends on how one views it... as if whatever laid the egg was not quite a chicken yet, but close.. then it still may technically be considered the 'chicken' coming first... and the egg is just a more refined version of what would be or become the chicken. However, if what laid the egg was not a hen yet or even remotely close to looking like a chicken, but it laid an egg that had the first chicken in it, then it could be considered the egg first.
But eh... I may lean more toward the chicken first type... genetically, there was something similar enough, so I would consider it a version of the chicken even if we may have called it something else, but that may have been what chickens looked like back then.. who are we to really say what is what based on physical appearances... as long as the DNA is similar then it's a fit It's not like the egg appeared out of thin air.
Post by Popcorn&Candy on Apr 11, 2024 8:32:01 GMT -5
My poor friend believes Noah and The Ark is real. That scientists are wrong about how the dinosaurs became extinct. I feel too bad to inform her she's wrong. It's like saying the earth is flat. Oh dear. I take it lightly, though: if someone wants to believe something who am I to stop them?
My poor friend believes Noah and The Ark is real. That scientists are wrong about how the dinosaurs became extinct. I feel too bad to inform her she's wrong. It's like saying the earth is flat. Oh dear. I take it lightly, though: if someone wants to believe something who am I to stop them?
Did she say how they became extinct?
A lad on my course said that architects had buried them.
My poor friend believes Noah and The Ark is real. That scientists are wrong about how the dinosaurs became extinct. I feel too bad to inform her she's wrong. It's like saying the earth is flat. Oh dear. I take it lightly, though: if someone wants to believe something who am I to stop them?
As is sometimes the case with many old writings the story of Noah could well be based in fact, in my opinion. It's just that the facts get distorted and built up over the years to the point in which they sound impossible. Chinese whispers over the years.
It's like the parting of the seas for Jesus or the plagues of insects. Such things do happen these days but we know more of the facts and ways that it can happen now.
My poor friend believes Noah and The Ark is real. That scientists are wrong about how the dinosaurs became extinct. I feel too bad to inform her she's wrong. It's like saying the earth is flat. Oh dear. I take it lightly, though: if someone wants to believe something who am I to stop them?
As is sometimes the case with many old writings the story of Noah could well be based in fact, in my opinion. It's just that the facts get distorted and built up over the years to the point in which they sound impossible. Chinese whispers over the years.
It's like the parting of the seas for Jesus or the plagues of insects. Such things do happen these days but we know more of the facts and ways that it can happen now.
I remember as a child trying to picture just how much Mary Magdalen was crying to get enough for a bowlful.
When people say the 'beginning of the world,' they're really referring to when human civilization began. Even if they aren't aware.
There is already an answer for where human civilization began based on anthropological evidence, historical records, and so forth.
Human civilization started within the fertile crescent, between the Tigris and Euphrates rivers, in what is now modern day Iraq. It was here where Mesopotamia was founded. It's capital city was well known, even within biblical canon, as Babylon.
Tales told during such times include the Babylonian creation story and possibly the Christian creation story found in Genesis. Mesopotamia may have also been directly referenced as 'Eden' in various iterations of the Christian bible.
Human life prior to the founding of this nation was merely nomadic and tribalistic. Though the Indus Valley Civilization may also be a potential beginning for civilization, I do not have the frame of reference for the time period it existed.
Matthew 25:40, NRSV said:
And the king will answer them, 'Truly I tell you, just as you did it to one of the least of these who are members of my family, you did it to me.
When people say the 'beginning of the world,' they're really referring to when human civilization began. Even if they aren't aware.
There is already an answer for where human civilization began based on anthropological evidence, historical records, and so forth.
Human civilization started within the fertile crescent, between the Tigris and Euphrates rivers, in what is now modern day Iraq. It was here where Mesopotamia was founded. It's capital city was well known, even within biblical canon, as Babylon.
Tales told during such times include the Babylonian creation story and possibly the Christian creation story found in Genesis. Mesopotamia may have also been directly referenced as 'Eden' in various iterations of the Christian bible.
Human life prior to the founding of this nation was merely nomadic and tribalistic. Though the Indus Valley Civilization may also be a potential beginning for civilization, I do not have the frame of reference for the time period it existed.
Isn't it still tribalistic? It's just that the numbers have increased. There are still nomadic groups of people about, although it is not the norm. Just being that does not make them uncivilised though. It's usually a requirement of their way of life. To take the thinking a step further is to say that the people in the cities are civilised and those that live outside the cities are not.
When people say the 'beginning of the world,' they're really referring to when human civilization began. Even if they aren't aware.
There is already an answer for where human civilization began based on anthropological evidence, historical records, and so forth.
Human civilization started within the fertile crescent, between the Tigris and Euphrates rivers, in what is now modern day Iraq. It was here where Mesopotamia was founded. It's capital city was well known, even within biblical canon, as Babylon.
Tales told during such times include the Babylonian creation story and possibly the Christian creation story found in Genesis. Mesopotamia may have also been directly referenced as 'Eden' in various iterations of the Christian bible.
Human life prior to the founding of this nation was merely nomadic and tribalistic. Though the Indus Valley Civilization may also be a potential beginning for civilization, I do not have the frame of reference for the time period it existed.
The only beginning that this question really applies to is what happened before the Big Bang.
Good point. And to which even the smartest cosmologist or physicist don't have answers for. We gotta give it to the mystery of universe for now.
I love one of the theories that cannot be disproven, until we know the answer.
"That the whole thing just appeared for no reason whatsoever. This is possible as before the big bang there could have been nothing, and if it really was nothing, then the laws of physics could not apply."
Caution, I am feral.
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